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[翻译]RahXephon与EVA / RahX 结局分析

楼层直达
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4个月前我翻译的,翻老帖子想起来,可能对大家有帮助,斑竹可以收到资料区

英文原文自:
http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn_archive.php?span=2002&PHPSESSID=3109b25353e6fc185f6a07438986ca51



1 Is RahXephon an Evangelion Rip Off?
RahXephon到底是不是照搬EVA??

August 20th, 2002
Question:
Surely you've heard of the debate that's been going on, comparing RahXephon against Eva. Some say it outright rips it off while others say there are similarities but nothing more. I'm curious to see what your take on this is since I'm sure we'll hear about it more once ADV releases this.
Answer:

Overexposure has dulled my enthusiasm for Evangelion over the years, but I still like and respect the show very much. Evangelion offers amazing action choreography and a stunning level of intellectual depth and philosophical pontification. RahXephon isn't nearly as intellectual or theoretical, but is instead much more mysterious and subtle and, I dare say, artistic than Evangelion. To some degree I have trouble comparing them because Evangelion seems to be a show with an agenda, a point to make, while RahXephon is much more a show seemingly intended only to be engaging and stimulating and entertaining.

几年来过多的讨论让我失去了对EVA的热情,不过我仍然喜欢和敬重EVA。EVA包含了了漂亮的动作情节和颇有深度的思想及哲学思想
RahXephon并不是那么的有思想上的深度或是具有理论性,取而代之的是更多的神秘和微妙细节,并且,我敢说,比EVA更具有艺术性
从某种程度上,对比他们比较麻烦,因为EVA像是一部根据日程发展的作品,RahX更迷人,具趣味性,娱乐性。

In that respect, RahXephon is less challenging and therefore easier to enjoy and like than Evangelion. I wouldn't say that RahXephon "rips off" Evangelion, especially considering that Evangelion itself is a psychological parody and theoretical analysis of the giant robot anime genre that's existed since the early 1970s. (In other words, Evangelion is very far from "original" itself.) RahXephon actually borrows far more heavily from Megazone 23 than it does Evangelion, and even Evangelion could be said to be heavily influenced by Megazone 23. I think that in its effort to be purely artistic entertainment, RahXephon knowingly pays homage to both Megazone 23 and Evangelion in the same way Evangelion re-uses the concept of a boy piloting his father's giant robot that was used 20 years before in Mobile Suit Gundam, which itself borrowed the idea from even older shows like Tetsujin 28 and Mazinger.

从这点来说,RahX不那么复杂因此比起EVA更容易欣赏,我不认为RahX照搬了EVA,特别考虑到EVA自身是一部心理学讽刺与和理论分析的大型机器人动画,此类别早在70年代就出现了(换句话说,EVA远离了本身的原创性)。比起EVA,RahX实际上更多地借鉴了Megazone 23这部动画,甚至可以说EVA是深受Megazone 23影响。
我认为成为达到纯艺术性的娱乐作品,RahX蓄意得借鉴了Megazone 23与Evangeion,就像EVA重新使用了20年前儿子驾驶父亲的巨型机器人的概念,Gundam,而这个概念本身又是借鉴自更老的作品像Tetsujin 28和Mazinger。


To summarize, I would say that the similarities between RahXephon and Evangelion are intentional. To summarize in an analogy, RahXephon is to Evangelion as Baz Luhrmann's Romeo+Juliet is to Franco Zeffirelli' Romeo & Juliet. Neither is Shakespeare's original, and both are exceptional productions and each enjoyable in their own rights, but one is highly classical and literary while the other is more contemporary and easily accessible.

总结:我想说RahX与EVA之间的相似点是故意的。
据个例子,就像Baz Luhrmann's Romeo+Juliet 和 Franco Zeffirelli' Romeo & Juliet (这个我不知道>_<),都是从各自角度非常精彩的作品,一部非常经典,具很高文学价值;另一部则更具当代性,更容易理解。


2 Can You Explain the Ending of RahXephon?
RahX的结局到底发生了什么,具有什么涵义
October 23rd, 2002

Question:
Can you explain what RahXephon was about or what actually happened at the end?


Answer:
Inevitably comparisons will be drawn between the conclusions of Evangelion and RahXephon, but such are to be expected given the similarities between the two shows in style, theme and intent. The imagery of the finales of both shows as well are bound to create speculation based on their similarity. However, if anything, I personally think that RahXephon has more in common thematically with Shoujo Kakumei Utena, another TV anime that tread the same ground, than it does with Evangelion. On its surface, RahXephon is a complete, logical science-fiction story of Pinocchio- the tale of a puppet who becomes a real boy. If my symbolic analysis is accurate, RahXephon may also be taken as a parable of growth, maturity and most of all self-determination.

不可避免的将要把EVA与RahX的结局相比较。因为两部作品有众多的相同点(风格,主题,目的)
根据他们的相似点,两部作品的终结都创造了思考的空间。然而,比起EVA,我个人认为RahX和Shoujo Kakumei Utena(好像是少女革命…)的论题更为相近。从表面上说,RahX是一部完整的,具有逻辑的皮诺曹从玩偶变成男孩科幻故事,如果我的分析准确的话,RahX也可以认为是一部具有关于成长,成熟以及大部分的自主/自我抉择的寓意的作品

Like its predecessors Evangelion and Utena, RahXephon is a story about a youth striving to overcome the insecurities and fears of childhood and develop into a self-aware and self-sufficient adult. Evangelion told the story of a young boy whose self esteem and sense of self worth were so minimal that he was unable to self-actualize and recognize himself as an independent person. Shinji defined himself as the Evangelion Unit 01 pilot, or as his father's son, or as the object of Asuka's projected guilt, but never as Shinji Ikari. Shinji's dilemma is fundamentally different from that of Ayato Kamina, although not entirely foreign to the world of RahXephon. RahXephon is a story about not merely coming into oneself, but fulfilling oneself and, like Utena, revolutionizing the world. While "revolutionizing the world" in Utena meant symbolically exchanging the world of adolescence for that of adulthood, RahXephon plays on both the internal, mental evolution of Ayato Kamina's own psychological world, and on the external level of Ayato physically altering the world around him by effecting the people that surround him.

就像先辈EVA和Utena,RahX是一部关于年轻人努力克服幼年不安和恐惧并成为一个具有自我意识与自足的成年人的故事。EVA讲述了一个自尊和自我价值非常弱的少年男孩无法发挥自我潜力并认同自己是一个独立的人的故事。Shinji把自己认作EVA01的驾驶员,或是父亲的儿子,或是Asuka发泄的对象,但从不是Shinji Ikari。Shinji的窘境从根本上与Ayato Kamina(神名绫人)不同,虽然不是完全对
RahXephon世界陌生。RahXehpon是一个关于不是仅仅意识到自己,而是实现自己,就像Utena,使世界变革。世界变革在Utena中意味着把青春期的世界变为成人的世界,RahXephon则同时描述了从内在的,心理演变的Ayato的心理世界,和外在的层面上,物质上得改变他周围的世界,通过影响自身周围的人们。

In the final episodes of RahXephon, Ayato recognizes that he has lost his memories of his past and has refused to recognize the love extended to him by Haruka and Hiroko and Elvy and Megumi. He's always running away because he's uncertain of his own humanity- in effect, afraid of commitment, afraid to be completely Murian or human, child or adult. When he says that either his or Quon's world must be destroyed and absorbed by the other, he symbolically means that he must determine his own future. He can either take his place in adult society and make his mark on the world, or allow himself to be absorbed, marginalized and victimized by society and life itself, represented by Quon. God has set Ayato on the road of life, and it's now time for Ayato himself to choose his own direction and purpose. Literally, as the final episode reveals, Lord Barbem is the deistic god of RahXephon who created the board, set the pieces in motion, then stepped back to watch how the game would play out. Ayato is one of the pieces given the choice of not moving, moving as expected, or making his own rules and moving as he desires.

在RahX最终话中,Ayato意识到他丧失了从前的记忆,并拒绝意识到Haruka ,Hiroko,Elvy与Megumi对他的爱。他始终逃避,因为对自己的人性不确定 - 实际上,害怕承担,害怕是完全的Mu族或是人类,孩子或是大人。当他说到他的世界或是Quon的世界必须被摧毁并被另一个世界同化,他象征性得表达了他必须决定他的未来。他可以立足于成人社会中并在世界上有所成就,或是仍由他自己被社会歧视,(由Quon表达)。神为Ayato准备了人生的道路,现在是Ayato自己决定方向的时候。(…………)(关于Barbem和细节看 http://bbs.popgo.net/bbs/showthread.php?s=...15&pagenumber=1 楼顶的帖子,很详细了……)
Ayato自己决定是否进行,按照预料的进行或是按照自己的意愿进行

Quon, in the form of Ishitori, seeks to destroy Ayato in the final episode. Quon may be considered the external influence of the world. In Ayato's mind she explains to him that she is part of him and he, part of her. She also helps him come to realize that he is not alone in the world and that he does have the power to change his own life and change the world around him. At the same time, she is the pressure to grow and mature. If Ayato does not make up his own mind and exert his full potential, he will die, be destroyed. Ayato's choice is to either forcibly exercises his will on the world by accepting the woman he loves and making sacrifices and accepting his own identity, or be squashed underfoot and absorbed into the larger world as a nameless, faceless pawn. In the same way, Ayato's mother Maya urges Haruka to make her own fate, shape her own future. Actually, both Maya and Megumi prod Haruka to fulfill her own dream and chase after what she wants. Just as Ayato is never really alone, Haruka as well has people around her that support her and encourage her to grow and mature and shape her own future by her own will.

在最后一话中,Quon,在Ishitori形态下,要摧毁Ayato。Quon可以被认为是世界中外在的影响。在Ayato的脑海中她对他结识了她是他的一部分,他也是她的一部分。她也帮助了Ayato意识到他在世界上不是孤独的,他有改变他自己命运和改变周围世界的力量。同时,她是成长和成熟的压力。如果Ayato不下决心并且发挥全部千里的话,他会死去,被摧毁。Ayato的抉择是强有力得表达自己的意愿,通过接受他所爱的人并做出牺牲与接受他自我;或是作为一个无名小卒被踩在脚下,吸收入更大的世界。 同样的,Ayato母亲Maya驱使Haruka决定她自己的命运,她自己的未来。实际上,Maya和Megumi都激励Haruka达成她自己的梦想。正如Ayato从不是孤独的,Haruka周围也有支持她鼓励她成长,成熟,通过自己的意愿实现自己的未来。

Itsuki and Makoto and Maya and Sayoko are all in the same situation as Ayato. They recognize themselves as only roles or clones, not individuals. Their inability to will themselves into being anything than mere clones or pawns results in them not being able to exist in the world. In the Darwinistic world of RahXephon, the strong survive. Characters that don't have the will or determination to force their own personality and desires onto and into the world become nothing more than victims and sacrifices. Characters like Ayato and Haruka and Megumi make an active effort to achieve their desires and express themselves. Itsuki, who sees himself as nothing more than Ayato's useless brother; Makoto, who is obsessed with being a "D"; Maya, who sees herself as nothing more than Ayato's mother; and Sayoko, who cannot accept the fact that she's a clone, but likewise cannot graduate into recognizing herself as an independent individual, do not make efforts to survive or adapt or recognize themselves as valuable, independent people. They do not value their individuality or self-worth and as a result, cease to exist when their self-defined purpose is fulfilled.

Itsuki ,Makoto , Maya , Sayoko 的处境都和Ayato相同。他们仅把自己人做角色或是复制品,而不是个人。他们未能发挥意愿认识到自己不仅仅是克隆或是棋子使得他们不能存在于世界上。RahX世界中就像达尔文的理论,适者生存。
像Ayato , Haruka , Megumi 这些角色努力得实现他们的愿望并表达出来。
Itsuki,只把自己当作Ayato没用的哥哥;Makoto,困扰于作为"D";Maya,仅把自己当作Ayato的母亲;Sayoko,无法接受她自己是克隆的事实。
无法渐渐认识到自己独立的个体,没有努力去接受,认识到自己是有价值的独立的人,无法继续存在。

Ayato does exert his own will. He recognizes and accepts that he is not alone, is not an island unto himself, and makes a conscious decision to commit to those circumstances. By revealing that Reika Mishima was actually Haruka all along (or at least RahXephon's "astral projection" of Harkua), the animation reveals to the viewer that Ayato has never been totally alone. The spirit of his first love has always been with him and supported him and gives him a reason to break out of his shell. As the omnipresent birds, and the final imagery of Ayato in Ishitori form all strive to convey, Ayato figuratively spreads his wings. When Ayato "tunes the world," he attunes himself to the world by proclaiming his individuality and announcing to the world that he will live and be happy and love who he wants to love. He accepts adulthood by accepting responsibility for himself and committing to the future he wants for himself.

Ayato确实努力表达了他自己的意愿。他认识并接受了自己并不是孤独的,在各种情况下做出了清醒的决定。
从后来我们知道,Mishima实际上从一开始就是Haruka(或至少是Haruka的RahXephon星的映射),动画暗示了读者Ayato从来没有完全的孤独过。他第一次的爱的记忆始终伴随着他,支持他并给与他理由打破他的躯壳。。正如无所不在的鸟儿,与最终Ayato处于Ishitori状态下意象所要表达的,Ayato象征性得张开翅膀。当Ayato“调律世界”时,他使得自己与世界调和(通过声明自己的个体和向世界宣布他会快乐得活下去并爱他所爱的人。通过接受了自己的责任与自己对未来的使命,他真正了成年了。

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只看该作者 1楼 发表于: 2004-01-06
两个结局一个走的是悲剧,一个走的是大团圆。

人生是一场戏,导演是个忘了剧本的疯子,人人都扮演着角色,这个场景里,你是远东的光明王,我是蒙族的首领,我们表面彬彬有礼,心里却充满了猜疑和敌意。也有可能,在另一个场景里,你我在飘满落花的帝都大学的校道上相逢,我是桃李天下、受人尊敬的老学者,而你是一个好学上进的青年学生,对我充满敬意——谁知道呢?在这场戏中,并非每个人都能扮演自己希望的角色。我们都太过沉迷这场戏,往往迷失卸下戏装的真正自己了。

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只看该作者 2楼 发表于: 2004-01-06
呵呵……楼主研究的好透彻——
不过本来就都是源自古传说嘛,理所当然是相似的啊~~
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只看该作者 3楼 发表于: 2004-01-06
两部都看过,我认为eve主要是讲人与人的了解和沟通,而RahX讲的是不变的爱情,eve还是接近于生活
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只看该作者 4楼 发表于: 2004-01-06
就像Baz Luhrmann's Romeo+Juliet 和 Franco Zeffirelli' Romeo & Juliet (这个我不知道>_<)

罗密欧和朱丽叶啊,好象是电影后现代爱情篇和原著版本的区别的意思吧?

还素商人有LOLI的FEEL啊.....

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只看该作者 5楼 发表于: 2004-01-06
很喜欢的片子,但真的很难懂呢
期待MX里的表现

正太控论坛/杉崎ゆきる同好会,欢迎参观讨论→KA.GA.YA.KE - 少年唐
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只看该作者 6楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
翼神的确要比EVA要好懂许多...
总觉得看Rahx让我想起了EVA.....
太相似了~

Οī℃q:14171604
Μsn:lovaboy8@hotmail.com

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只看该作者 7楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
受益非浅啊。
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只看该作者 8楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
Re: [翻译]RahXephon与EVA / RahX 结局分析
引用
最初由 Shirley.Ambiv 发布

Itsuki ,Makoto , Maya , Sayoko 的处境都和Ayato相同。他们仅把自己人做角色或是复制品,而不是个人。他们未能发挥意愿认识到自己不仅仅是克隆或是棋子使得他们不能存在于世界上。RahX世界中就像达尔文的理论,适者生存。
像Ayato , Haruka , Megumi 这些角色努力得实现他们的愿望并表达出来。
Itsuki,只把自己当作Ayato没用的哥哥;Makoto,困扰于作为"D";Maya,仅把自己当作Ayato的母亲;Sayoko,无法接受她自己是克隆的事实。
无法渐渐认识到自己独立的个体,没有努力去接受,认识到自己是有价值的独立的人,无法继续存在。


现在想来,RX的主题确实是这个,当时就体会不深,对Ayato的心境理解就是简单的怪物心理(觉得人人都怕他,敌视他)。
不过片中对此主题的表现我觉得不是很好,太多的神秘色彩把主题给掩盖了。

上帝的礼物
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只看该作者 9楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
看了这个主题仍不明白
但我认为最主要的还是表现跨越时空的爱情吧
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只看该作者 10楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
Rhx更容易懂一些,eva看了n遍还是没办法完全懂的

[TLF][dmhy][popgo][niuguo]dino[edtoon][chn]
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只看该作者 11楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
都是折磨译者的作品。
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只看该作者 12楼 发表于: 2004-01-07
我还是觉得最后就是一部爱情片…… :p

凌人最后没看出来有什么成长了……

With great power comes great opportunity to ABUSE that power.
--- Black Mage, from 8-bit theatre
(又名:被奇诺TD委员会,奇诺后宫队,奇诺同好会等) :D

还是OPERA最高啊!!!MYSTERY!!!这也能算是BLOG么?-_-b
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只看该作者 13楼 发表于: 2004-01-08
分析的很深阿,不过给我感觉Rah还是有些背景未能描述清楚
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只看该作者 14楼 发表于: 2004-01-08
就感覺而言RahXephon比EVA來的好,同樣是以少年的成長,而RahXephon的故事感覺比較成功

罪無可赦攬集一生罪惡之人--原罪
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